What are some countermeasures against Christian arguments?

***PLEASE read at least the last paragraph***





Visiting some religious family in 2 weeks or so, and I need to prepare to load my guns. They are southern Baptists, and I have announced to them I am atheist in March of this year, just to my mother but she told everyone she knows, lol.





I know for certain, without a doubt, that a religious debate will come up. I want to get them thinking and questioning their faith rather than blindly following it, so what are some countermeasures I can take against their, most likely, 'arguments' for the existence of their 'god'. They deny the Big Bang theory, theory of evolution, etc. and think that everything is too complex; therefore "Cosmic Magic Man" must of done it. They also think that dinosaurs existed until the middle ages and the legends of dragon slayers are proof of this (I know, I'm embarrassed...). They also believe in off-wing christian things, like levels of hell, other humans existed before Adam and Eve, etc. I'm sketchy on the stuff.





If anyone can point me to a website that I can go to to debunk the Creationist Christian arguments, they will get 10 points no questions asked; and I will be in your debt. More specifically, if you can point me to debunking the "God gave us free will' thing, that would be awesome. If this helps, they are southern baptists.





Thanks!|||You probably won't change their minds, because their position is not based on logic but on emotion (with a veneer of logic to justify it). Their position is also anthropomorphic, in that they keep imagining a magic somebody behind events.



You can argue against the existence of their god and of Jesus. Below are some useful websites.



A simple argument for evolution is shown in the 3rd website. It shows that our genes prove that humans and other great apes share common ancestry.



There's no reliable evidence for God/Yahweh, Jesus, Allah, Zeus, Thor, or any of the thousands of other gods that people have worshiped. If any of the major gods existed, there would be reliable evidence. There's also extensive evidence that they are all just myths, created to help soothe our fear of death, and perpetuated through religion to subjugate the underclass into obedience.



Science has shown that there's no need for gods to explain the traditional reasons for a god -- origin of the universe, origin of life, origin of species, origin of humans, origin of morality. Science also shows us the psychological reasons that people believe in god(s).



There's no reliable evidence that Jesus even existed. The story of Jesus is just a myth cobbled together out of prophesy and stories from the Old Testament and previous gods and myths -- created in the 40's and 50's by Paul of Tarsus (who exhibited evidence of epilepsy and had delusions of Christ talking to him), the other apostles, the unknown authors of the gospels in the 70's or later, and many other people. The reliable evidence for this is overwhelming.



Paul and the other epistle writers don't know any biographical details of Jesus' life, or even the time of his earthly existence. They don't refer to Bethlehem, Nazareth, Galilee, Calvary or Golgotha 鈥?or any pilgrimages to what should have been holy sites of Jesus' life. They also don't mention any miracles that Jesus was supposed to have worked, his virgin birth, his trial, the empty tomb, his moral teachings, his disciples, or even when he existed. To them Jesus was largely a sky-god, who existed in the spiritual past.



If Jesus had actually existed, Paul would have written about his life, disciples, and teachings. Paul did not write about any of this.



If Jesus had actually existed, the gospels would have been written in first person format. Instead, they were written in third person fiction format like a Harry Potter story, with Matthew and Luke extensively plagiarizing from Mark.



If Jesus had actually existed, at least one of the approximately 30 local historians of the first century would have written about him. No historian of the first century wrote about him or his disciples.



Therefore Jesus didn't exist.



Christianity is a death cult that emphasizes what happens after we die -- whether we end up happy forever or tortured forever. The mythical story of Jesus' crucifixion is a horrible, sadistic story of human sacrifice. Christians even celebrate it by ceremoniously drinking his blood and eating his body. This is ritual vampirism and cannibalism.



The idea of blood sacrifice for atonement (i.e. Jesus dying for other people's sins) is immoral -- punishing the innocent to free the guilty.



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If their god gave us free will then he's not all-powerful or all-knowing.



First note that an omniscient god can't have free will, because he would already know what he was going to do, and thus can't change his mind. In fact, an omniscient god can鈥檛 actually decide to do anything!



The idea of Yahweh's omniscience also brings into serious question the concepts of human free will and morality. If Yahweh knows what we are going to do then we have no free will and are just characters in a play created by Yahweh. Without free will, morality for humans makes no sense. Without free will and morality, any sort of divine punishment and reward system loses any justification. Heaven and Hell would be places where Yahweh could watch the souls he created, predestined for eternal happiness or agony.





"The problem with religion, because it's been sheltered from criticism, is that it allows people to believe en mass what only idiots or lunatics could believe in isolation."

鈥?Sam Harris



"Christians believe in a book that has talking animals, wizards, witches, demons, sticks turning into snakes, food falling from the sky, people walking on water, and all sorts of magical, absurd and primitive stories, and they say that we are the ones that need help?"

鈥?Dan Barker (slightly redacted)|||1 familiarise yourself with the conmonly seen logical fallacies, all their arguments will rely on at least one.



2 check out critiques of their favourite arguments, the cosmological, ontological, etc.



They will only win a debate using your ignorance of how to pull their arguments apart, so make sure you can.



Firstly, I'd go to the creationist sites, see which ones appeal the most, then go to talkorigins to see why they are not arguments at all.|||General counter apologetics: ironchariots.org (Pascal's wager and some variety of the cosmological argument are almost garaunteed to be brought up)


debunking creationist claims: http://talkorigins.org/indexcc/list.html





Free will is incompatible with a universe with an omnipotent, omniscient god that is either interventionist or the creator of said universe.|||We have free will by virtue of being born. It's not a gift, it's a given because we each possess an individual brain.



god knows all there ever was or will be, so therefore, we do not have the biblical free will because god already knows before we are born, what we will choose. That idea stumps most believers.|||Check out "The Thinking Atheist" on YouTube. I know there's two videos that deal with their arguments and an atheist response.





http://www.youtube.com/user/thethinkinga鈥?/a>





Look for Top Ten Creationist Arguments 1 %26amp; 2|||There are not valid arguments against the Truth of the Bible since it is authored by the Great God


Jehovah , the God of truth.





Don't let Satan take your soul without a fight.|||This site has most of 'em.|||the best way:





never argue with them, they are stubborn, even if you had written the truth on a shovel and slam it on their face they would not believe in it|||Waste of time trying to argue against faith.|||Once again the small groups of Atheists and Creationists are trying to make us believe that we have to choose between God and humanity's ongoing discovery of God's Creation through Science. This is not true.





Truth cannot contradict Truth. -- Pope Leo XIII





Most Jews and Christians do not take the stories of creation in the Bible literally. We believe the stories included in first 11 chapters of Genesis tell religious truth but not necessarily historical fact.





One of the religious truths is that God created everything and declared all was good.





Catholics can believe in the theories of the big bang or evolution or both or neither.





On August 12, 1950 Pope Pius XII said in his encyclical Humani generis:





The Teaching Authority of the Church does not forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology, research and discussions, on the part of men experienced in both fields, take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter - for the Catholic faith obliges us to hold that souls are immediately created by God.





Here is the complete encyclical: http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_x鈥?/a>





And here is the Address of Pope John Paul II to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences on October 22, 1996 speaking of the Theory of Evolution: http://www.newadvent.org/library/docs_jp鈥?/a>





Here is an interesting article about Pope John Paul II's opinion in the matter: http://www.americamagazine.org/content/a鈥?/a>





The Church supports science in the discovery of God's creation. At this time, the big bang and evolution are the most logical scientific explanations.





As long as we believe that God started the whole thing, both the Bible and responsible modern science can live in harmony.





Here is a nice list of Christian thinkers in science: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chr鈥?/a>





The Clergy Letter Project an open letter endorsing the Theory of Evolution signed by over 12,000 clergy from many different Christian denominations: http://www.butler.edu/clergyproject/rel_鈥?/a>





I suggest you read "New Proofs for the Existence of God: Contributions of Contemporary Physics and Philosophy" by Robert J. Spitzer http://www.amazon.com/New-Proofs-Existen鈥?/a>





http://www.magisreasonfaith.org/





With love in Christ.|||There are no countermeasures against Christianity.





Why do you feel as if you need to go on the attack? If you need to defend your faith, then you should know what you believe and why you believe it. However, you are asking a bunch of strangers in cyberspace to hand you some ammo, and hoping that it will shoot through your gun.





If you encounter that silly argument about Adam and Eve not being the first humans, fire this off at them. Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned--


then ask them if they believe that there was death before Adam sinned.





As for the sketchy stuff, you are not equipped to be in a discussion on theology if you have no actual beliefs to hold. Just be bold and strong. Explain to them why you believe that there is a Creation without a Creator.|||You can take a horse to the river, but you cannot make it drink.





And if this happens to be a dead horse, it would be a futile endeavor.





The point I am trying to make is that a debate is futile of you are debating with people lacking the proper education, and capable of admitting they are wrong. Usually, fundamentalists will start with the position 'the bible is right, if there are facts against it, then the facts are wrong'.





To deny the big bang would call for someone who is at least aware of the fundamentals of cosmology. Any one of them are astronomers? No?


Then you are losing your time. It would be like discussing how an electric motor works with a caveman.|||In Our Faith{Mine} and as You have seen are many... There is no burning torture for eternity. Our God of the Universes is Just, Fair Merciful and is Love. He will though burn up sin as it has engulfed this planet since Adam and Eve and this will be what is burned up-{ashes under the believers feet}Mal. 4:1 and if one insists on holding onto their own sins and not let Christ cover them to show His righteousness at Judgment, and not their unrighteousness...then they choose to burn up themselves with their sins attached..This is not what God wants but has great respect for mans free will.





There will be more unbelievers than believers Matthew 7:13,14 tells us this...and more lost. It is not a surprise that you choose not to know God. Many do not want this Saving factor but to live their life on Earth as they please, and not to give up self for God. This is your choice and in for knowledge, God already knows this. Have a good life while you are here for this life is all you will have.





I am sorry for your mama cause mama's love their children and one of the biggest heart aches in the world for Parents is, to think their Children do not believe in God and will not be with them forever.





I encourage you not to say a thing in combat against what they believe or in favor of what you believe. This is a heart ache going no where--trust me. Nothing will be accomplished but more grief all around, than it already has. Sometimes the kindest thing you can do is say nothing but I love you and this is my choice and leave it at that. Enjoy one another for as long as you can, kindness and patience and mercy for each other in all ways---and live as you will.





I have loved my Lord for 31 years and it was the best choice of my life.I met Him when I was 34. I had had enough vision of sin out in the World and for myself personally , and enough was enough. This earth is not my home..but I want to be with God in the new one He has for me with no more Pain, mentally or physically with loved ones and friends. I choose God above all.--He heard my Cry and answered me and gave me the Holy Spirit so I could learn of Him in Scripture as before I was saved it was Chinese to me.... and not to be in the dark any longer but now in His light. Only believers know this Light. There is no argument but just fact for the Believers..Not Blind faith but a Gift from God in all wisdom--can't explain it..but it is real.





God bless you, rather good luck on the path you are on with your folks and all will be peaceful. Peace is a Wonderful thing from God in Life, and in walking with Him, The peace He gives is a special one which does not have hardly any heart ache at all.





Being sin natured as, all of us are...at times we get "self oriented" so self, gets in the way of God and we feel hurt but repentance washed us clean and each day is a new Day to rejoice in it. I hope this is a beneficial answer for your up coming gathering. Love to you in My Saviour..missleslie|||Number one, you said you are visiting family. If you are spending the night or longer you may want to have a back up plan like finding a motel near by so you can have a safe place to go if things get out of control.



Number two, it's your family. You really should try to guide every conversation away from the subject of religion if it's going to put you on the spot. You said you are going in two weeks or so. If you don't already know where the website is then you must be very limited in your knowledge on how to debate an atheist point of view with christians.



You really can't absorb enough information to "load your guns" for a serious debate. They probably have spent years and years living that life style whereas you sound like you just became an atheist if your just getting around to telling your mother and don't know where any websites are for discussing an atheists point of view.



You really can't debunk anything with a large group of people that have deeply ingrained beliefs while you will be the sole person on your side debating.



You will be cornered and ganged up on and your mother will probably suffer worse than you from seeing her family fighting.



Religion is the WORST subject to discuss next to politics when visiting with family and friends.



Your ONLY way to win an argument is by not starting one. Walk away. Be courteous and respectful is all you should and can do. Family is about being together, not tearing apart. If people insist on ramming religion down your throat then I would go to a motel. If you don't have that option then your just going to have to try and maintain your composure while maintaining your silence.



Here is a link of a very radical example of a fanatical christian. If the people you are visiting hold fanatical beliefs and some of them sound bizarre, you may find yourself in a room full of people attacking you like this woman.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOpva_iit鈥?/a>



And here's the other side of the coin. Notice in this video how the lady with the pink shirt is able to fire questions one after the other before even really listening to a response in order that a conversation can't actually start. It's a tactic to put you on the offense. Along with the little quotation mark fingers, smirking and looking at her other friends for affirmation while drawing the dividing line between the person who should be treated as a guest. You can learn a lot from these two video's and why you would be best not to let yourself be put in that situation of being on the offense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ytq80b4yv鈥?/a>



Edit: Okay, I just saw your comment to me. I was under the impression that you may have been a young person walking onto a firing range. That's the only reason I went so far with the video and all.|||Just tell them you want to die and not have eternal life. For that is the choice and they will understand that you made yours choosing death instead of eternal life in Christ. Jesus died for sins so we all can have eternal life, and all who accept this will live forever.


So the choice is death or eternal life through Jesus. I choose eternal life, how about you?


bless you.





Just tell us/them you want to die and not have eternal life. Seemingly many want to die and not accept the free gift of eternal life in Jesus.|||You cant really get them to see your side ever. However, heres some interesting info, on of all things, the pentagram and how it IS Christian NOT Demonic.


http://theminorityreport.forummotion.com鈥?/a>


More fun, Pagan symbols taken into Christianity to convert the Pagans with little effort as a merging of religions:


http://www.seiyaku.com/customs/pagan-sym鈥?/a>


But do not, the Southern Baptist will not be swayed no matter how much proof you have of these things, even more so then most others. They are like the Black Ops of Christians, going in, and taking no prisoners.


You can further state the fact Egyptian gods are far older then the Bible, and Horus too was born to a virgin mother, they wont listen. Good luck to you.